I received this from Luana she asked me to post it on here so everyone could see what is happening.
Motorized Recreation Area
Focus Group on User Preferences
June 24, 2008
Chalet at Granite Peak
Wausau, WI
Agenda
1. Introductions. In Attendance (colors coded for organization’s comments):
Blue Wisconsin All-Terrain Vehicle Association (WATVA):
Randy Harden, Rob McConnell, Hank Wozniel
Red Wisconsin Off-Highway Vehicle Association (WOHVA)
John Schnorr, James Maze
Purple Wisconsin Off-Highway Motorcycle Association (WOHMA)
Alex Bub, Becky Hayes
Orange Wisconsin Observed Trials Association (WOTA)
Dave Schigoda
Green Wisconsin 4-Wheel Drive Association (W4WDA)
Luana Schneider, Corey Nimmo
Brown Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Mark Aquino, Jeff Prey, Brigit Brown, Peter Biermeier
2. Meeting format and background
3. MRA planning efforts to date
4. Review of existing studies
WATVA
CFA(DNR) ~ 7-9 years old.
Updated with tourism
2 years ago WATVA survey (asked a variety of Questions including gas tax. – more specific (e.g. travel distance)
TPA doing survey on interaction b/w UTV & ATV
WOHVA
Short survey. Asked y/n to registration program. ~1300 responses
WOHMA
Will do research
W4WDA
Favorable (to motorized park) no formal research.
WOTA
Trails not providing desired experience
5. Query of users on equipment design, specs and capabilities
WATVA
LUV – 62-65 Outside of wheel to …
98 inch length
1,999 pound limit
900 pound over
Factory box
4-6 low pressure tires
800 cc engine
Spark arr.
96 dbL
No people limit but rule
30-40 mph avg/max speed (no speed limit)
ATV – See legal definition (48 inch may soon be gone)
Trends up to 1000 cc
Longer wheel base
WOHMA
32 inch cleared width
12 inch tread width
Wide variety
80 pound (little kids)
500 pounds (big dual sport bikes)
Wheel base (center to center I think this should be 50 to 62 inch wheel base – I’d delete the reference to 20 inches because I believe that was related to rim diameter which is discussed immediately below (Mark Aquino) – 50 cc ~20 inches to big/dual 62 inches)
Wheel diameter R/M nm 8 inches – 21 inches
Spark arrest
Competition motorcross bike likely to Not have spark arrestor (need to get info out ahead to users)
Types of bikes
Street legal dual sport150 -1200 cc, 4 strokes
Non street legal (play) bike (also not race bike) Kids 50-650 cc
Speed, Kids 5 mph (less with training wheels),
short bursts up to 70 mph
average speed 18 mph
96 dbA
Single track through woods – one way preferred. Otherwise one way vs. bidirectional is unresolved
WOTA
Trials Bikes
32 inch width
Soft tires (decrease tire pressure, less tread)
160 pound weight
52 inch wheel base
~75 inch long vehicle
21 inch rim size
Not too many kids
250 cc average (80 – 350 cc range)
~20Horsepower
Not always fact. Spark arrestor (easy to put one on)
~5 mph on obstacles, 5-35 mph on trials (not much fun over 40 mph)
WOHVA
~max/16” wheel base length
60 – 96” width
Mix (about equal) stock and custom
6. Preferred site conditions: size, topography, vegetation, soil types
WATVA
Must be over 1000 acres
1200 acres is NOT large
Gilbert is the armpit of MN
Good example = NH park (Peter has a copy of the info on this park) is over 7000 acres with over 131 miles of trails within the park – very good!
Bigger is better
Park would be of more value to the ATV riders if the park was hooked up to an existing trail system and access to gas, motels and food
WOHMA and WOHVA
Size should be BIG
7. Preferred trail features
WOHVA
Design for wider crew cabs, e.g. corners
Some looking for “first time experience” (about 50%)
Some looking for more “max adventure” (about 50%) Majority of these want rock climbs/challenges
Majority drive OHV to park/trail (as opposed to trailering)
Increase difficulty – increase trailering (~60%)
Rock gardens are good (maybe multiple)
Spill kits
WOHMA
95% of OHMs are trailered
Want to know rules ahead of time
ATV and motorcycle trails difficult to share – ruts
Countour trails OK
Don’t have to have obstacles
Lines with more challenge
W4WDA
Most folks on trails are OK going slow “have a lot of fun at 3 mph”
Lots of families, lots of stock vehicles
Adventure and challenge is better than speed
All but ATV usually involves scouting
WOTA
Stumps are good
WATVA
Something is better than nothing
Variety/change (experiences, terrain, artificial is ok, no roads!)
Kids areas – like variety, less attention span, safety training area (located near greater trail facilities)
8. Preferred user riding experiences
WATVA
Families want more structured environment
“Single guys” won’t necessarily want to go to these places
Median Age 47-52
Target audience is dependant upon facility (size, amenities)
Good signage (wayfinding, level of difficulty)
Safety training area
Increase Development – electrical , access to trails, etc.
Casual experience
See SVRA (CA) example
Buffer areas – other (non-primary) uses (hike, etc.)
Not one size fits all (remember keep in mind)
Minority scared (WATVA#3) don’t want to lose maintenance $ or like (linear) trails better
Signage for trail length and trail difficulty
Length, less than 10 miles no one wants
Safety and etiquette is important
Realize mud area versus water areas are different experience
Manufactured mud area gives an opportunity to evaluate
Places where people learn the “right thing to do”
Day use – smaller ok
Need bigger to occupy users for multiple days
Day use near populations is OK
Multiday – further from populations
Opportunities (if ATV exp. Avail in other places, won’t trailer too far)
WOTA
Lean more towards primitive (less equip)
No user fee info yet.
Want obstacles, 1 foot tread
Multiple lines
Shared desires – obstacles can be same/similar
Trials could get by with 20 acres
WOHMA
Loops versus linear
Kids areas – like variety, less attention span, safety training area (located near greater trail facilities)
WOHVA
Very favorable to registration/sticker program. Needs to be segregated fund.
Increase same approach as at Mole Lake
Vehicle inspection
Allow folks only on certain trails (guided)
Lots of folks do like mud areas – best to have managed areas
Not too difficult
OHV/OHM there is demand
Mileage not as important as design
ATV not as interested in challenges
OHV and OHM challenges/play area could easily be shared.
W4WDA
Two times proposed sticker/registration programs
Want similar challenges to trails (but wider!) 8 foot tread
Management by design (obstacles at beginning to weed out)
Color Code signs
9. Desired user amenities
W4WDA
Camping at nearby very important hotel w/ multiday facilities
Young riders underserved
Want challenge
Don’t have a lot of disposable income
Smaller areas ok
Sufficient parking for trailers, etc.
Bathroom with showers
Sound testing
Shop, etc. for other activities
Fees: per vehicle instead of per person
WOTA
Decent overflow parking
WOHMA
Take advantage of amenities in nearby communities (first) access from/to parks.
OHMs have been using private riding areas
OK with smaller areas, but not a solution
Firewood
Vehicle Wash sites (invasive species removal)
Fees: per vehicle instead of per person
WATVA
Look at existing situations to take advantage of
Adams/Dyracuse
Riding area (vs. #1 property size) is what is important
ATV – need to offer them more (already have a lot)
UTV – pent up demand
Less for ATV (e.g. green, blue, black)
Mix of camping level development
Pull through sites
Summer weekday programs, emphasize school age kids
Ability to clean up after selves
Shelter, shade
Fees: per vehicle instead of per person
WOHVA
Fees: $15/20 a day or $100/yr or statewide (state facility)
Fees: per vehicle instead of per person
DNR
OHV Park Guidelines overall, attendees feel these are good
Most underserved (Mark A) OHM trail riders, OHV riders, family ATVers – My intention for asking this question was to try to get at the question of who are the primary groups who currently have the fewest recreational opportunities, so we can take them into consideration when coming up with the MSRA proposal. I think having a solid understanding and agreement on which groups have the fewest current opportunities combined with which groups have the most users who will want to recreate at a well executed MSRA are key pieces of information that we need to have as we proceed. We need to keep asking these questions as we proceed. (Mark Aquino)
All knowledgeable, user ranger/enforcement
Fees/rules – Users willing to pay for quality. No alcohol while riding (standard rules e.g. public intoxication), Hours.
We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect.
Aldo Leopold